Vladimir Putin gave
an interview to TASS Russian State News Agency on Russia –
Africa Summit in Sochi.
October 21, 2019
00:15
Question: The Sochi
Summit is meant to open a new chapter in the relations
between the Russian Federation and African countries. Its
participants will bring to Sochi their ideas about ways to develop
cooperation. What does Russia, in its turn, have to offer
to the states of the African continent? What is Russia's
biggest competitive advantage that you will present to the heads
of delegations at the Summit? What volume of Russian
investment in African economies do you expect to achieve, say,
in the next five years?
President of Russia
Vladimir Putin: Russia and African states have traditionally enjoyed
friendly, time-tested relations. Our country has played a significant role
in the liberation of the continent, supporting
the struggle of its peoples against colonialism, racism
and apartheid.
Later on, we helped
the Africans to protect their independence and sovereignty, gain
statehood, form the basis for national economies, and create
capable armed forces. Important infrastructure facilities, hydroelectric power
plants, roads, and industrial plants were built by Soviet –
and subsequently Russian – specialists. Thousands of Africans
received quality professional education at our universities. This is well
remembered by many current African leaders, who value our support. We too
keep the memory of those pages of history.
Today, the development
and strengthening of mutually beneficial ties with African countries
and their integration associations is one of Russia's foreign policy
priorities. We will shortly be witnessing an unprecedented, benchmark
event: on October 24, Sochi will host the Russia-Africa Summit.
This will be the first full-scale top-level meeting, to which we have
invited leaders of African states and heads of Africa's major
regional associations. The idea to organise such an event
emerged quite a long time ago; however, it has taken some time
and considerable preparatory work to make this Summit a starting
point for building fair partnership relations based on equality and mutual
practical interest.
We expect that our African
colleagues, representatives of the business community will come
to Sochi with a solid package of proposals aimed
at enhancing bilateral relations, while heads of Africa's regional
organisations will share their ideas as to how we could jointly
develop our multilateral cooperation. We will consider these initiatives with
great interest and decide what could be launched right away and what
will require further elaboration.
Russia also has its vision
of how to ensure further development of its ties with
the African continent. We intend to discuss relevant ideas with our
partners, systematise and reflect them as concretely as possible
in the final declaration. Besides, it is important to identify
mechanisms for implementing agreements that would be reached
at the top-level meeting in Sochi.
I am sure that
the Summit will be a success since all the necessary
prerequisites are there. Today, the Russian-African relations are
on the rise. We maintain a close political dialogue, including
on the issues of global and regional security.
The ties between our parliaments are expanding. Our mutual trade is
steadily growing and diversifying.
Russia, together with
the international community, renders comprehensive assistance
to Africa, inter alia, by way of reducing the debt burden
of its states. With a number of countries we are carrying out
debt-for-development swap programmes. Russia supports efforts aimed
at controlling the spread of infectious diseases (including
Ebola haemorrhagic fever), natural disaster relief, settlement of existing
conflicts and prevention of new crises. Russian universities provide
professional training for national specialists from African countries both
free of charge and on a commercial basis. Our defence
and law enforcement agencies are stepping up their cooperation
as well.
However, these are
by no means all the items on our cooperation agenda. Our African
partners see and appreciate the fact that Russia's foreign policy,
including in relation to their continent, is of constructive
nature; that Russia, as one of the UN Security Council permanent
members, advocates democratisation of international affairs, supports
the legitimate aspiration of African states to pursue their own
independent policy, to decide on their own future without imposed
'assistance' by third parties. When doing so, we do not make our support
and joint development projects which we offer contingent upon
the fulfilment of political or any other preconditions
or so-called 'exclusive', but in fact enslaving trade and economic
preferences; we do not impose our views, respecting the principle
of ”African solutions to African problems“ proposed
by the Africans themselves.
As for the potential
level of investment in Africa in the next five years,
the figure is expected to be quite high, with a number
of billion-dollar investment projects with Russia's participation
currently in the pipeline. Both Russia and Russian companies
have substantial resources. We hope that our partners, in turn, will
create the necessary stable and predictable business environment
and investment protection mechanisms and ensure favourable investment
climate.
Question: Competition
in today's world is extremely high. Is Russia ready for tough rivalry
in Africa, say, with China or the US? Do you think there are
risks of using protectionist policies, trade wars or unfair
competition against Russia? What methods do you intend to apply
to address them? Won't this rivalry adversely affect the African
partners?
Vladimir Putin: Indeed,
interest in developing the relations with African countries is
currently visible not only on the part of Western Europe,
the US and the PRC, but also on the part
of India, Turkey, the Gulf states, Japan, the Republic
of Korea, Israel, and Brazil. This is not accidental, as Africa
increasingly becomes a continent of opportunities. It possesses vast
resources and potential economic attractiveness. Africa's infrastructure
needs are increasing, and African population is rapidly growing,
as are its demands. All of this, in turn, calls
for an expanded domestic market and greater consumption.
Of course, where there are promising prospects for investment
and profit, there is always competition, which, unfortunately,
at times goes beyond the bounds of decency.
We see a number
of western states resorting to pressure, intimidation
and blackmail against governments of sovereign African countries.
They hope it will help them win back their lost influence and dominant
positions in former colonies and seek – this time
in a ”new wrapper“ – to reap excess profits
and exploit the continent's resources without any regard for its
population, environmental or other risks. They are also hampering
the establishment of closer relations between Russia and Africa –
apparently, so that nobody would interfere with their plans.
We certainly take note
of these factors and draw conclusions. We are not going
to participate in a new ”repartition“
of the continent's wealth; rather, we are ready to engage
in competition for cooperation with Africa, provided that this
competition is civilised and develops in compliance with
the law. We have a lot to offer to our African friends.
This will be discussed, among other things, at the forthcoming
Summit.
And, most certainly, we,
together with our African partners, are committed to protecting our common
economic interests and defending them against unilateral sanctions,
including by reducing our dollar dependency and switching
to other currencies in mutual settlements.
I am confident that
the Africans are by no means interested in the escalation
of confrontation between the major powers in the continent.
On the contrary, they would like the rivalry to give way
to cooperation in addressing urgent challenges for Africa, such
as terrorism, crime, drug trafficking, uncontrolled migration, poverty,
highly infectious diseases. I would like to reiterate that this is
the kind of work Russia is willing to participate in.
Our African agenda is
positive and future-oriented. We do not ally with someone against someone
else; and we strongly oppose any geopolitical ”games“ involving Africa.
Question: The Soviet
model of cooperation with African countries often involved
the lending mechanism. Did this policy prove effective? Does Russia plan
to resume the practice of providing loans to African
countries? What other mechanisms for offering support to African
countries are you prepared to discuss?
Vladimir Putin: Indeed,
the Soviet-era model – with its pros and cons – proved
quite effective at the stage of the development
of statehood in African countries. We still continue rendering
financial assistance to African states. While in the past, these
decisions were primarily politically motivated, now they are part
of the humanitarian assistance.
As far as granting
loans is concerned, today these loans are market-oriented. For example,
a decision was made to grant a loan to Egypt
in the amount of $25 billion for the construction
of four power units for El Dabaa NPP. This is specifically market-oriented
lending.
Let me point put that
in the post-Soviet period, at the end of the 20th century,
Russia cancelled $20 billion of African countries' debts
to the Soviet Union. This was both an act of generosity
and a pragmatic step, because many of the African states
were unable to service those debts. We therefore decided that it would be
best for everyone just to start our cooperation from scratch.
There are other schemes that
are currently applied to some of the remaining debts.
For instance, intergovernmental agreements with Madagascar, Mozambique
and Tanzania are being implemented in the framework of the debt-for-development
swap programme. We expect that Ethiopia's remaining debt to Russia
($163.6 million) will be settled under similar conditions.
The relevant draft agreement is currently being elaborated.
Let me also remind you that
Russia makes contributions to international programmes of assistance
to Africa in the framework of the UN Development
Programme, the World Food Programme (WFP), and the International
Civil Defence Organisation. Sometimes in-kind support is provided. Since 2011,
WFP offices in Africa have received 258 KAMAZ trucks. Another batch
of 75 trucks has been shipped most recently.
At the same time,
the use of new financial mechanisms does not rule out
the practice of granting loans, but rather provides
for a wider and more diversified toolkit in support
of development. It contributes to establishing mutually beneficial
cooperation between Russia and African countries.
All these issues will be
examined at the Economic Forum on October 23‑24. We are
ready to hear proposals from our African partners and share our
considerations.
Question: Earlier,
military technical cooperation was among the areas of interaction
between Moscow and African countries. Are there any plans to enhance
it? Are you going to discuss any specific projects or contracts with
the Summit participants?
Vladimir Putin: Indeed,
the traditions of our military technical cooperation are deeply
rooted. It was developed back at a nascent stage
of establishment of African states and played its role
in the fight of peoples of the continent
for their independence. And our African partners highly appreciate
it.
Today, we have agreements
on military technical cooperation with more than thirty African countries
which we supply with a wide range of military equipment.
Of course, part of it is being transferred at no charge. But this
is common practice followed by all leading world countries.
It is encouraging that
military technical partnership continues to evolve vigorously. What’s
more, African countries often initiate such cooperation themselves, because
they understand that one should be able to protect its independence
and sovereignty, including from extremist and terrorist groups. It is
yet another incentive to cooperate with Russia, which has abundant
experience in fighting terrorism, including in Syria.
Our African partners
actively participate in military-technical fora and military
exercises organised by Russia, in the framework of which
they get acquainted with Russian advanced weapons, military hardware
and experience of its use. For our part, we will further
contribute to training military personnel of African states
and take part in training African peacekeepers.
Question: Social
and humanitarian cooperation is declared as a theme
of the Summit. Why does Russia help Africa if far from all its own
social problems are resolved?
Vladimir Putin: Humanitarian
assistance is being provided to Africa by many world countries, yet
none of them – be it the US, France, China or any other
country – has fully resolved all of its social problems, including in healthcare,
education and culture.
Russia too provides
humanitarian assistance to African states, but not by reducing
the amount of funding for its own programmes. After all, good
traditions of charity and support in times of need are
a hallmark of our people.
I will give
a recent example. Russia, as many other states, provided aid
to the African countries affected by tropical cyclone Idai
in April 2019. Russia sent humanitarian supplies to Zimbabwe,
Malawi and Mozambique, i.e. large tents, blankets and food products
weighing about 30 tonnes for each country.
We continue to take
an active part in efforts to provide comprehensive assistance
to Africa. Russia is involved in the UN World Food Programme’s
school meals project valued at $40 million, which has been implemented
in Mozambique since October 2017, and in the project
to introduce modern technology and equipment for disinfection
worth up to $15 million in Madagascar.
We also provide assistance
to our African friends in healthcare development, as dangerous
communicable diseases respect no borders. Russia was among the first
to react to Ebola haemorrhagic fever outbreak, having allocated
$60 million to combat it. There is now a microbiology
and epidemiology research centre in Guinea. Russia contributed
$20 million to the World Bank programme to implement
the global malaria control initiative.
And such examples are
plenty. I would like to emphasise that Russia's participation
in fighting poverty, dangerous illnesses and other global threats,
as well as reduction of potential risks ”at distant
approaches“ are fully in line with our national interests.
Question: Security
issues are particularly acute in some African countries. This affects
the operation of Russian companies there. Are you going to raise
issues of security at the Summit and propose measures
to strengthen it? What help is Russia ready to provide to settle
conflicts across the continent?
Vladimir Putin:An important
element of Russia's interaction with African countries is regional
security cooperation. Our Summit's slogan – For Peace, Security
and Development – is not accidental. Steady progress is not possible
without resolving these problems.
The situation
in many parts of Africa is unstable: inter-ethnic conflicts
and acute political and socioeconomic crises remain unsettled.
Numerous terrorist organisations, such as ISIL, al-Qaeda, Boko Haram
and Al-Shabaab, are highly active in North Africa,
the Sahara-Sahel region, Lake Chad area and the Horn
of Africa. Armed forces and law enforcement bodies of African
countries cannot oppose militants alone and need significant aid.
We will further increase
contacts between special services and law enforcement agencies
of Russia and African countries in the field
of countering terrorism, organised crime, drug trafficking, money-laundering,
illegal migration and piracy.
In demand is
the practice of training military and law enforcement personnel
of African countries, including at a reduced cost and free
of charge. For example in the past five years alone, more than
2,500 service personnel from African countries completed studied
at the military educational institutions of the Russian
Defence Ministry.
Our African partners take
an active part in Russia-organised events, such
as the International Military-Technical Forum and meetings
of high representatives for security issues. Eleven African countries
participated in the 2019 International Army Games.
And the number of those willing to join them is growing.
Ultimately, all those
programmes have the same goal – to help Africans solve existing
security issues themselves, as it will strengthen African states, their
sovereignty and independence. And hence, the world will be more
stable and more predictable.
In advance of his
visit to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United
Arab Emirates Vladimir Putin answered questions from Al Arabiya senior
presenter Mohammed Tomaihi, Sky News Arabia senior presenter Mohannad
Khatib and RT Arabic Public and Political Programmes Department
Head Salam Musafir.
October 13, 2019
13:00
Mohammed Tomaihi (retranslated): Dear
viewers, welcome to this unique interview with Russian President Vladimir
Putin, which we are recording in Sochi.
With me here today are Mr.
Mohannad Khatib, a reporter at Sky News Arabia and Salam
Musafir, a reporter at RT Arabic.
Thank you very much
for this unique opportunity, considering your upcoming visit to Saudi
Arabia.
President of Russia
Vladimir Putin: It is my pleasure. I think it is a good
tradition to meet with a country’s media before visiting it.
As for the visit
to Saudi Arabia, we attach great importance to it. It is,
in a sense, a return visit after the visit by King
of Saudi Arabia, Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, to Russia.
It was the first, historic visit. We consider it historic, and it really
is.
There is one more thing that
I believe is important to note. In Soviet times, relations
between Saudi Arabia and the Soviet Union were at a rather
low level. In recent years, the quality of our relations has
changed dramatically. We consider Saudi Arabia a friendly nation.
I have very good
relations with both the King and the Crown Prince. We have been
making good headway practically in all fields.
I will start with
the economy. There is still a lot to be done, but we have set
a good pace. Last year it was up 15%. In the first six months
of 2019 growth was as high as 38%. We are considering some good
joint projects. Our Russian Direct Investment Fund and the Public
Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia have jointly established a $10
billion platform. $2 billion have already been invested. Work is underway
on other projects, and some promising and interesting projects
have already been implemented.
We also consider it possible
to operate on the territory of Saudi Arabia. One
of our companies is exploring the possibility of building
a petrochemical facility with investments of more than $1 billion. It
is SIBUR Holding, Russia’s largest company in this sector.
We are fostering
a partnership in the trust-based, sensitive area
of military and defence cooperation. We have been negotiating
for a long time.
Equally important are our
joint efforts to resolve the regional crises. In this regard,
I would like to emphasise the positive role Saudi Arabia has
played in resolving the Syrian crisis. We are working especially
closely with Turkey and Iran, as you all know. But I believe
that without Saudi Arabia’s contribution towards a Syrian settlement, it
would have been impossible to achieve a positive trend. Therefore,
I would like to express our gratitude to both the King
and the Crown Prince for this constructive approach. I am
confident that my visit will help to build up the momentum both
in developing bilateral relations and enhancing cooperation
in international organisations.
Mohannad Khatib (retranslated): Mr.
President, thank you very much once again for giving us
the opportunity to record this interview.
During interview with Al
Arabiya, Sky News Arabia and RT Arabic.
Your visit
to the Middle East will possibly have an impact
on the United Arab Emirates as well. What do you think about
strategic cooperation between Russia and the UAE, and how will
this cooperation evolve? Can this cooperation play a certain role
in strengthening collective security, considering the Russian
initiative to establish a collective security architecture
in the Gulf region, especially in the area
of the Strait of Hormuz?
Vladimir Putin: You
have just mentioned the strategic nature of our cooperation. Indeed,
we signed a strategic partnership memorandum last year, and we see
the United Arab Emirates as one of our very close
and promising partners. The signing of this document was not
a coincidence, it demonstrated the quality and nature
of relations between the United Arab Emirates
and the Russian Federation.
I have to say
that, as is the case with Saudi Arabia, our partnership is vigorously
developing in all areas. Of all the Gulf countries, we have
the highest level of trade, $1.7 billion, but of course, this is
not enough, we are well aware of that. So currently, we are working with
the UAE’s sovereign fund. The joint platform is worth approximately
$7 billion. $2 billion have already been invested, work is underway on other
projects. And of course, it is safe to say that the United
Arab Emirates greatly contribute to resolving regional crises,
and play a stabilising role in the region.
It is no great secret that
we maintain regular contacts with the leadership of the United
Arab Emirates. There is even an established tradition, a practice
to compare notes regarding different topics. In my opinion, we
are doing it for the benefit of both parties,
and the region as a whole.
Salam Musafir (retranslated):
Mr. President, in the more than 10 years of your presidency some
harsh, dramatic developments have taken place in the Middle East,
and the statehood of several countries has been undermined,
namely Iraq, Libya. We see that this could be the fate of other
states as well.
We see what happened
in the Syrian Arab Republic, what catastrophic events took place
there. Now, many members of the Arab public think that Russia can
really bolster its role in the region. You surely know that our
network, RT Arabic, covers Russia’s foreign policy as well.
Many of our viewers
have been asking straightforwardly: why has Russia taken such a harsh
stance in the case of Syria, but the position regarding
Libya and Iraq was perhaps not as hard?
Vladimir Putin: First
of all, during the crises in Iraq and Libya, I was not
in office. But this is not the main reason. The thing is that,
as is commonly known, in the case of Iraq, the United
States circumvented the United Nations Security Council. The US had
no mandate to use force against Iraq.
Actually, I was
President at that moment. Anyway, Russia did not support
the invasion. Russia, France and Germany did not support the US
plans regarding Iraq. What is more, we warned about the potential adverse
implications, and that is exactly what happened.
The initial euphoria
of military victories soon gave way to despondency and pessimism
about the consequences of the victory. Because all Iraqi
government institutions were destroyed, but no new institutions were
established, at least in the beginning.
On the contrary, the radical forces got a boost,
and terrorists groups became stronger.
Many former officers
of Saddam Hussein’s army and security service agents resurfaced
and joined the ranks of what later evolved into ISIS. So, those
who led and supported this campaign had not considered the ramifications.
We do expect that there will
be some positive developments in Iraq, and despite some internal
problems, the country will continue to move forward. Although there
are still a lot of problems to deal with, we are perfectly aware
of that.
As for Libya,
the chaos wrought by the military operations still prevails, but
in this case, our Western partners played a trick on us, using
the vernacular term (I do not know how this will be translated).
Russia voted for the corresponding Security Council resolution. After
all, what does this resolution say, if you read it carefully?
The resolution prohibited Gaddafi to use aviation against
the rebels. But there was nothing about allowing any air strikes
on Libyan territory. But that was what actually happened. So, basically,
what happened there was done circumventing the UN Security Council.
And we are all aware of what happened next. There is still chaos
and confusion; a flow of migrants went through Libya
to Europe. Gaddafi had always warned about that, he said that he stopped
African migrants from going to Europe. As soon as this ‘wall’
was gone, they started pouring into Europe. And now they have what they
were warned about. But that is probably not even the main issue. Most importantly,
it is destabilising the entire Middle East region.
In advance of his visit to the Kingdom of Saudi
Arabia and the United Arab Emirates Vladimir Putin answered questions
from Al Arabiya senior presenter Mohammed Tomaihi (centre), Sky News Arabia
senior presenter Mohannad Khatib (left) and RT Arabic Public
and Political Programmes Department Head Salam Musafir.
As for Syria, we
came to Syria to support the legitimate government,
and I would like to emphasise the word ‘legitimate.’ It
does not mean that they do not have internal problems; I am ready
to talk about it in detail later. It does not mean that
the current leadership is not responsible for what is going
on there. They are, but it does not mean that we were to allow
terrorist organisations to capture Syria and to establish
a terrorist pseudo-state there. We could not allow militants to move
to former Soviet republics. We do not have hard borders
or a visa regime with them. We could not allow militants
to infiltrate Russia from there. We already had such an experience
and we know what this might lead to. We still remember what happened
in Russia’s North Caucasus region not that long ago. This is why we made
a decision to support the legitimate government.
We have not just provided
assistance to the legitimate government. We proceed from
the premise that internal political contradictions must be and can be
resolved by political methods only. That is why we were so adamant.
I am glad to see it happening now as part
of the political process, as a result
of the establishment of the so-called Constitutional
Committee.
This idea was conceived
right here, in Sochi, at the Syrian National Dialogue Congress
that brought together various political forces, including the opposition
and the government. And here Syrians agreed among themselves
to set up a constitutional committee that would work on changing
the Syrian Constitution or drafting a new one.
We have trodden a hard,
arduous, and long path to form this committee. Now it has finally
been formed, on behalf of the government, on behalf
of President Assad, and on behalf of the opposition.
I expect that in the coming days, it will take its first steps
in Geneva under the auspices of the UN.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Mr.
President, you spoke earlier about the relations between Saudi Arabia
and Russia. As you know, it is a strategic partner
of the Russian Federation in terms of energy security. You
must be aware of the two missile and bomb strikes
on the oil refinery, and of the most recent
developments.
There has been talk
in Saudi Arabia about Iran playing a destabilising role
in the region. You said that evidence had to be found to prove
that Iran was really behind that. What is the official position
of the Russian Federation regarding this incident?
Vladimir Putin: Our
official position is as follows: we condemn any such actions, end
of story. This is the official position. We said this
at the very beginning, and I have recently reiterated it
at the Russian Energy Week forum in Moscow. There should be no
room for doubt here. Such actions never yield any results for anyone,
including those who plot and execute them. Why? If someone may have wanted
to deal a blow to the oil market, they failed. There were
indeed some fluctuations in prices, but I do not think it was
anything too serious, even though the initial response was quite strong.
The prices went back to normal in the very first week,
because the fundamental factors that the market depends on will
never allow the prices to either skyrocket or take
a nosedive.
Secondly, we –
and I personally – maintain close contacts with
the leadership of Saudi Arabia, including the Crown Prince. We
discussed the incident, and I told him that I thought it
necessary to collect evidence, to find the perpetrators behind
that incident. Mohammed bin Salman agreed with me in principle,
and asked me a question: “Could Russia take part
in the investigation?” I said yes, we are ready to share
anything that might be necessary, everything we have for a thorough
investigation. Our position remains unchanged. It is counter-productive
to put the blame on someone before finding out exactly who was
behind the incident.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Mr.
President, can Russia give any assurances that if it is revealed that Iran
masterminded the attack, Russia will join other countries
in condemning it?
Vladimir Putin: I have
just said it and I will repeat, regardless of who stood behind
the incident, we condemn any such actions. That is exactly what
I said before, and I really meant it. There is no other way
to interpret this.
Mohannad Khatib: Let us
now put these attacks on the oil facilities aside. I think you
are well aware of the tension that has mounted
in the region, and you must have been analysing this situation
yourself. There is concern about Iran’s role in not only these recent
attacks, but also in what is happening in other countries –
in Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and some others.
Do you think Russia has
the same concerns about Iran’s activities, which we think are having
a destabilising effect? Can Russia do anything to change Iran’s
behaviour?
Vladimir Putin: As I said,
we have an unprecedented level of partnership, I would even say
friendly relations with Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
But Russia will never be friends with one country against another. We build
bilateral relations that rely on positive trends generated by our
contacts; we do not build alliances against anyone. This is my first
point.
Secondly, you and your
audience understand, I believe, that Russia and Iran are neighbours;
this is a factor we always bear in mind.
Thirdly, Iran is
a major regional power, an ancient country with a rich cultural
legacy. If we want to build good relations with a country –
and I believe every country in the region would want
to have good relations with each other, no one seeks a standoff or,
perish the thought, any conflict. No one does. I know that there is
no one looking for a showdown and that is true for both
Saudi Arabia and the UAE. If we want to set a positive
agenda, we need to acknowledge that our partners have their own legitimate
interests. I am not weighing in on what is legitimate
and what is not. I just want to underscore that it is only
natural that a big country like Iran, which has existed on its
territory for thousands of years has its own interests. Persians
and Iranians have lived here for centuries. And we should
respect those interests.
Of course, it is
debatable what is legitimate and what is not, which interests are
legitimate and which cross the line. However, you need to have
dialogue to understand each other, to puzzle out all
the nuances, intricacies and issues. Without dialogue, you cannot
solve any problem. That is why I think I can share the concerns
of the UAE and Saudi Arabia, but in the case
of bilateral issues, it is up to them to resolve them.
As for Russia, we
will do everything in our power to create the right conditions
for positive change. Russia has cordial relations with Iran and is
on very good terms with our Arab friends. Back in the Soviet
times, we did not have any particularly deep relations with Saudi Arabia, but
we were truly close with almost all the Arab countries. The Soviet
Union was on very good terms with the entire Arab world. Today we are
back to the same level of partnership. Therefore, if we put
to good use the cordial relations that we have with Iran,
the Arab world, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, I think we can
come up with something that would be of interest to everyone.
Previously, I mentioned
the positive role that we play in Syria. It is true that we –
Turkey, Iran, and Russia – work hard, shoulder to shoulder,
to achieve positive results. However, it would have been impossible
without support from Saudi Arabia, and we all understand that. And,
of course, without assistance from the UAE as well. It means
that, despite acute contradictions, there is still something that brings us
together towards a common goal. You just need to find such
a goal and then apply concerted efforts to reach it. That can
create the right setting for the normalisation of relations
between the countries in the region.
During interview with Al Arabiya, Sky News Arabia and RT Arabic.
Mohannad Khatib: Staying
with Iran. Some say that the P5+1 talks should be resumed. Moreover,
the common opinion is that the agreement should also cover
the ballistic missile programme. What is Russia’s position here regarding
the call to revive that framework and possibly modify
the agreement, extending it to some other issues?
Vladimir Putin: There
is the JCPOA or the Iran nuclear deal, which specifies certain
limits and commitments for Iran, and Iran has accepted them. Let
us be frank here, otherwise the conversation will be too dull:
the countries of the region do have some contradictions,
and you have just mentioned them. There is disagreement between Iran
and Israel, Iran and the US. I believe that attempts must
be made to settle those disagreements, to seek a way out
of the complicated situations that we observe today. However, if we
agree that there are contradictions between regional powers and Iran, then
who can take up the role of an arbitrator and decide
whether Iran complies with the JCPOA or not? First and foremost,
an arbitrator should be impartial, right? Second, an arbitrator
should be a professional. Third, it should be someone respected
by the international community. We have such an arbitrator,
the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency.
And the IAEA has publicly, without any hesitation, said that Iran
fully complies with all of its obligations.
What we are seeing is not
quite productive. Not to mention that it is just unfair to blame Iran
for failing to deliver on some commitments. It is
counter-productive because when a person or a country is treated
so unfairly, they start acting in a way different manner, not
the way existing agreements require. When one party does not abide
by its obligations, why would the other still honour them?
Nevertheless, I believe that Iran should follow both the letter
and spirit of the agreement. But that is a different
question.
As for the missile
programme, I suppose the issue can and should be part
of the discussion too. In Russia, there is a saying,
and I think Muslims would understand the meaning as well:
“You should know the difference between God’s gift and fried eggs
[dollars to doughnuts].” These are two different matters. The missile
programme is one thing, and the nuclear programme is something
different. It does not imply that the missile programme should not be part
of the conversation, especially since it raises certain concerns.
There is a place for discussion, but let us not mix apples and oranges
here; otherwise, all the progress that has been made could be totally
lost.
Therefore, I think that
such a discussion can take place, but it should not cancel out all
the achievements on the principle track, that is putting
a cap on Iran’s nuclear activities.
Salam Musafir: I would
like to ask you a question on the matter, namely security
in the Gulf region. It has truly seen a lot of developments
recently. There have been many dramatic incidents: detention of tankers,
a missile and bomb attack on the Saudi Aramco refinery, and the aggression
that continues around Yemen. The recent attacks on Saudi Aramco’s oil
facilities strongly affected sentiment in the region, as we can
see.
In your view, what will
be the impact of all these high-profile incidents on cooperation
under the OPEC+ agreement? So far, regional powers have not made any
specific statements regarding Russia’s proposal for a collective
security strategy in the region.
How do you plan
to promote that collective security initiative? Do you think it will ever
see the light of day?
Vladimir Putin: Your
questions seem to be linked, but still deal with separate issues. Our
cooperation within OPEC+ is one thing, while regional security
and stability and our proposals is a different one.
First, if anyone thinks that
seizing tankers and attacking oil infrastructure can in any way
affect cooperation between Russia and our Arab friends, Saudi Arabia
and the UAE, that they can undermine or break down our
cooperation with OPEC+, then they are profoundly wrong.
On the contrary, we will forge ever closer ties because our main goal
is to stabilise global energy markets. Technically, we need to cut
global reserves to some sensible level, so that these reserves do not
affect prices.
We have made some good
strides and whatever we have managed to achieve has served not only
oil producers, but also consumers. Neither producers nor consumers want high
prices, rather we all want stability in the global market. Let me be
straight with you, all that has been done under the leadership
of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Overall, those were his initiatives,
and we just backed them. Now we see that we did the right thing.
We need to respond
to any attempt to destabilise the market. Russia will certainly
continue working with Saudi Arabia and other partners and friends
in the Arab world to counter any attempts to wreak havoc
in the market.
Now let us turn
to Russia’s initiative to stabilise the situation
in the Gulf region. We put that initiative forward some time ago. We
proposed to establish some sort of an organisation that would
bring together the countries of the region as well
as several other stakeholders, the US and the EU,
to name just a few. This organisation would serve
as a platform to discuss crises and all kinds
of pressing problems. Some have already voiced their support; others say
it is too early to launch such an initiative.
And the reason for that, by the way, is
the serious contradictions between regional powers. From my point
of view, these deep contradictions call for such a platform, so
that countries could at least sit at the negotiating table.
As you may be aware, sometimes it is not the negotiations that
matter, but a handshake. A handshake can mean a lot.
Salam Musafir: A follow-up
question, if I may. Can we rely on Russia’s efforts
as a mediator between the Islamic Republic and Saudi
Arabia, or on a larger scale in order to help relieve
the tension in the Gulf region?
Vladimir Putin: The role
of mediator is not a rewarding one. I believe that our partners
in Iran and Saudi Arabia do not need any mediation.
Since we maintain very
friendly relations with all the countries in the region,
including Iran and the Arab states, such as Saudi Arabia
and the UAE, we could certainly help relay some messages between
the parties, so they could hear each other’s position. But since
I personally know the leaders of these countries, I am
perfectly sure that they have no need for any advice or mediation.
What you can do is maintain a friendly conversation with them
and present some ideas from a friend’s perspective. I am
convinced that as highly intelligent people they listen and analyse
everything they hear. From this point of view, yes, we could play
a positive role in the process, to some extent.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Mr.
President, if you allow me, I would like to ask
a straightforward question. You have just said that all allegations
against Iran in regard to these strikes are premature. You recently
met with President Rouhani. Did he assure you in any way that Iran had
nothing whatsoever to do with these strikes and was not involved
in this in any way?
Vladimir Putin: Yes,
that is exactly what he said. He said that Iran had nothing to do with
this. We met “on the sidelines” of an international summit.
It was the summit of the Eurasian Economic Union,
an organisation we created with a number of ex-Soviet states.
A few months ago, the Eurasian Economic Union and Iran signed
an interim agreement on a free trade area. We have a free
trade area agreement with Singapore and Vietnam, and we are also
working on one with Israel and Egypt. The Eurasian Economic
Union has enjoyed successful cooperation with many states across the globe.
Iran is about to join this process, and we discussed these prospects
just recently, on the sidelines of the summit
in Yerevan, Armenia.
Mohammed Tomaihi: One
more question, if I may, Mr. President.
Russia certainly plays
a role in the Gulf region, and your intelligence agencies have
a huge capacity. It is hard to believe that Russia does not know what
really happened to those oil facilities. Is it possible?
Vladimir Putin: Believe
it or not, we do not know. I asked the heads
of the Foreign Intelligence Service and the Ministry
of Defence the very next day. We do not know. I will refrain
from any further comments as to who should know in order not
to hurt anyone’s feelings, but I can say that we do not have any
definitive information regarding the incident.
Mohannad Khatib: Can we
move to Syria now, Mr. President?
You recently announced
a suspension of large-scale combat operations in Syria,
and everyone is now hopeful that political settlement will work. You spoke
about it at the Valdai Forum here in Russia. You said that Syria
could become a good example of how such conflicts must be approached
and settled.
Do you think that we can
talk about a political settlement while other countries’ forces are still
deployed in Syria? I mean the United States, Russia, Turkey
and Iran? Is there hope to achieve stability in Syria amid these
destabilising factors?
Vladimir Putin: There
is always hope. Do not ever give it up. I can only agree with you that all
the forces deployed illegitimately inside any sovereign state –
in this case Syria – must leave. This is true for everyone. If
Syria’s new legitimate government chooses to say that they have no more
need for Russia’s military presence, this will be just as true
for Russia. Right now, we are discussing this openly with all our
partners, including Iran and Turkey. We spoke about it with our American
partners many times. And I will be as open with you
as I have been with my counterparts: Syria must be free from
other states’ military presence. And the territorial integrity
of the Syrian Arab Republic must be completely restored.
Mohannad Khatib: Do you
have a vision for Syria’s political future? And what role does
Russia play in it?
Vladimir Putin: It is
a difficult question, and it is a question that only Syrians can
answer. I hope that they do so not by taking up arms
and fighting a war against their own people, but through
negotiations, in this case, as I said, in Geneva.
The very first step along this path is to work
on the country’s Constitution, whether by amending
the existing Constitution or drafting a new one. In either
case, it must protect the interests of all the ethnic
and religious groups. People need to know that they live
in their own country and that it protects them by law. This must
be equally true for Sunnis and Shia, for Alawites and Christians,
because Syria has always been a state with many religions, and it
could pride itself on this. Only insane people could have started
a deranged, purging campaign, killing other people, as these
terrorists did in Syria.
Again, it will not be easy;
it will be a difficult process, but I believe it can work. Do you
know why I feel positive about it? People are returning home. We are
talking thousands of people. They are returning from abroad and from
other Syrian provinces. They are coming home. This is a sure sign
of the trust they have in the situation we have today; they
trust the government and its guarantees, and they trust
the guarantor states.
I am happy to say
that Syrians welcome and trust Russian troops and Russia’s military
police. The military police units deployed there are doing a good
job. They are mostly Muslims from the North Caucasus.
And the local residents trust them and feel free to ask
them for help and protection. I have reports of such cases.
I am happy to say all this, but in order to have long-term
peace, people need to find a way to settle things between
themselves. The worst peace is always better than
the best of wars.
Salam Musafir: Let us
leave the Middle East and the Gulf region for now.
You always say that
Russian-American relations need to improve, because otherwise, if there is
a ‘fault’ in these relations, this may change the situation
for the worse globally.
Today, as you look
at the Trump Administration, as you read Donald Trump’s tweets,
do you see any hope for any steps to improve relations between
the two countries? You surely follow the US President’s statements,
don’t you?
Vladimir Putin: I must
say that I do not have any Twitter account or anything, so I do
not follow anyone there. Of course, I get reports from my staff
from time to time. The opinion of the President
of the United States always matters; it is always very important
for many parties and for the world overall, but I do
not follow him personally.
Salam Musafir: Let us
assume President Trump is re-elected next year. Do you think he could be
the more promising president, that he might have more courage
to de-escalate tension between Washington and Moscow? And will
Russia be willing to resume dialogue?
Vladimir Putin: You
work for Russia Today, don’t you? Well, it is because of people like
you that Russia will be accused of meddling in the election,
because you said just now that Trump could be re-elected. They will say,
“Gotcha! This is Russia interfering with the election campaign”.
Jokes aside, we all know
what President Trump says about Russian-American relations and how he
talks about them. We know that during his previous campaign, he called
for relations to get back to normal, but unfortunately, nothing
has been done. But we do not hold it against anyone because we can all see what
is going on in the American domestic political scene these days.
The domestic political agenda prevents the incumbent president from
embarking on a drastic improvement of relations between our
countries.
In any case, we will
work with any administration to the extent it is willing to work
with us. However, we cannot help but feel concern over overall global security
and strategic balance. This is obvious.
In 2002
(and President Trump has nothing to do with it), the United
States withdrew from the ABM treaty, which, I would like
to reiterate, was the cornerstone of the entire global
strategic security system, because it imposed limits on the missile
defence systems of our countries. Do you see the point? The point
was to make it clear that neither party can ever win a nuclear war,
should it happen. That was the whole point. The United States
withdrew from the treaty in order to secure some serious
strategic advantage for themselves, thinking that they might shield
themselves from a threat, unlike Russia. It would leave Russia
in a very vulnerable position, while the US would be protected
by an ABM system.
Back then, I told our
US partners that there is no way of knowing how well such a system
would work and so we will not waste tens of billions on it. But
strategic balance must be maintained, which means that we will develop
offensive weapons that will defeat any ABM system. And we have developed
them, and everyone knows it by now. The ABM systems are designed
to intercept ballistic missiles, i.e. missiles that follow
a ballistic trajectory whereas what we did was we enhanced
and improved ballistic missiles significantly and developed
a new weapon that has no rivals in the world. We have hypersonic
missiles that follow a low trajectory rather than a ballistic one. No
one has hypersonic missiles today, except us. Of course, the world’s
leading powers will one day develop them, sooner or later. But we will be
able to come up with something new by that time. I know what
projects our scientists, researchers, designers and engineers are working
on right now. Unfortunately, this has led to an arms race
of sorts. But that is what has happened. It is a fact. Sadly, this is
true.
Now, recently, the US
also withdrew from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF)
Treaty. It think it was a mistake, too, and that they could have gone
a different path. I do understand the US concerns. While other
countries are free to enhance their defences, Russia and the US
have tied their own hands with this treaty. However, I still believe it
was not worth ruining the deal; I believe there were other ways out
of the situation.
The New START Treaty is
actually the only treaty that we have to prevent us from falling back
into a full-scale arms race. It serves to further reduce
and limit strategic offensive arms, that is to limit the entire
range of strategic weapons, the entire strategic triade: land, sea
and air-based combat inter-continental ballistic missile launchers. This
treaty expires in 2021. To make sure it is extended, we need
to be working on it right now. We have already submitted our
proposals; they are on the table of the US Administration.
There has been no answer so far. Our understanding is that they have not made
up their minds yet as to whether they need to extend
the treaty or not. But if this treaty is not extended, the world
will have no means of limiting the number of offensive weapons,
and this is bad news. The situation will change, globally. It will
become more precarious, and the world will be less safe
and a much less predictable place than today.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Let
us get back to disarmament. Mr. President, do you think that a new
arms race could plunge us back into another cold war?
Vladimir Putin: I wish
it does not happen. In any case, Russia will be the least affected
party because, as I said, we already have the next generation
of weapons, and these are unprecedented, with unmatched capabilities.
In that sense, we have done our homework. We do not need to rush now
and can calmly think of what could be done next.
Military spending also plays
a role here. It may or may not come as a surprise
to you but Russia ranks seventh in terms of defence spending.
Saudi Arabia is third. The US military spending totals 716 billion, if
I am not mistaken, and next year they asked for 750 billion.
Next comes China with around 177 billion, followed by Saudi Arabia, with
59 billion, right? Trailing behind are the UK, France, Japan, with 48.1
billion, based on the data I have, and Russia is only
seventh with 48 billion. However, we have unmatched military capabilities.
What has made it possible?
It comes as a result of focused research on priority areas,
and the credit here goes to our specialists, their ability
to identify those areas, mobilise resources. It has been made possible
thanks to research institutions, production know how, fundamental
knowledge and competences.
Therefore, an arms race
is a bad thing, and it will not be good for the world.
However, we will not be dragged into exorbitant budget spending games.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Despite
this, NATO continues to press forward. Do you feel that
the alliance’s march towards Russia’s borders is a threat? How will
you respond to it?
Vladimir Putin: We do
feel it, certainly. We have always felt it and voiced our concerns. We
were told, “Don’t be afraid. You are not the target and there is
nothing to fear. NATO is changing, it is no longer a military bloc,
it does not have belligerent intentions”, and stuff like that.
In the meantime, the North Atlantic Treaty remains
in place, in particular Article 5, if I am not wrong, that
guarantees military support to other members, etc. It is a military
bloc. As its infrastructure is moving closer to our borders, we are
not happy about it.
There is another trick.
I think it is clear to everyone that NATO is just a US foreign
policy tool. Europe is aware of it. Take the French president.
I do not need to make anything up. Another trick is that once
countries join NATO, they have no say over the arms that are installed
on their territory. This was the case in Romania with missile
defence. Poland will soon get it, too. It will be really close to our
border. It is certainly a threat to us. We see it
as an attempt to neutralise our strategic nuclear capabilities.
However, it is clear their efforts are doomed to failure. I believe
experts now see this as well. Now that we have the cutting edge
systems that I mentioned earlier, these moves are no longer a threat
to us. I do not want to say what we really think about it.
Still, there is nothing positive about it. So yes, we do see this
as destructive activities that escalate tension. There is nothing good
about it.
Mohannad Khatib: Mr.
President, another issue that used to be in the limelight.
I am referring to the Palestinian-Israeli settlement. Like
the Soviet Union, Russia has played an important role
in resolving the issue. Take the Madrid conference,
for instance. However, in recent years, Russia has not been very
active on that track while the US is trumpeting a so-called deal
of the century. In the meantime, the Israeli
government is going ahead with its arbitrary authoritarian policy. What is
Russia’s role in resolving the issues that are so fundamental
to the Middle East?
Vladimir Putin: This
does not depend on us or our actions. It is up to all
the stakeholders whether they want to see someone
in the process or not.
Incidentally, we have very
good relations with Israel as well. Almost 1.5 million Israelis come from
the former Soviet Union. Israel is almost a Russian-speaking country.
The Russian language is often heard in shops everywhere. We do care
about what is happening in Israel. However, we have a principled
position on the Israeli-Palestinian settlement: we are fully
committed to all the UN decisions and believe that they must be
executed.
Now on the ‘deal
of the century’. We will support any deal that will bring peace but
we need to know what it is about. The US has been pretty vague about
the details of the deal. Washington has kept
in the dark the global and domestic public, the Middle
East, and Palestine.
We believe it is important
to ensure a two-state solution and establish the State
of Palestine. We suggested hosting direct talks in Moscow between
the Israeli Prime Minister and the head
of the Palestinian Authority, but the meeting never took place,
unfortunately. We have been doing what we can: we have held several meetings
between different Palestinian groups. Restoring Palestinian unity would be
a major contribution to the process. Speaking with different
voices undermines the united Palestinian stance. But we are working
on it.
It does not mean that we
have quit the process altogether, and are no longer interested
in it. We are deeply committed primarily because we believe that
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is key to resolving many other
regional issues. Unless it is resolved, it will continue to feed
radicalism and terrorism, among other things. When people feel they have
no legal ways to uphold their rights, they take up arms. In this
sense, I feel the Israelis are also interested
in a long-term, ultimate solution, not just the Palestinians.
Mohammed Tomaihi: Mr.
President, we are running out of time. We do not want to steal time
from our colleagues.
You have made fairly
positive comments about Saudi Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman. You seem
to have close and good ties with him. Do you count
on the positive role that he can play in fostering
the Russian-Saudi relationship and in the Middle East
agenda in general?
Vladimir Putin: That is
exactly his role today, and he has been quite successful. Indeed, we have
very good personal ties. He has been behind many of our initiatives,
and these projects are being put into practice. As I said, he
came up with OPEC+, he endorsed the joint platforms of our investment
funds. Two billion worth of investment has been made by now. He
raised the need for broader defence cooperation, and we have
a good plan of joint activities in that area. This is already
happening. Hopefully, our collaboration will continue to expand going
forward.
As for Saudi
Arabia’s role in the region, it is definitely one
of the key countries there. It does have an impact based
on its capabilities and its position in the energy market.
Saudi Arabia can be safely called a global player since it has
an impact on the world energy market, on world energy
in general.
This is why cooperation with
Saudi Arabia, its King and Crown Prince bin Salman is very important,
and we will develop our relations going forward.
Salam Musafir: Before
we came here, we did a poll on RT Arabic’s website. We asked
a simple question: “If you had a chance to meet the Russian
President, what would you ask him?” It generated a lot of interest,
and we picked the most popular questions. I will not list all
of them, but one of the biggest concerns among our Arab audience
is the future of Russian-Arab ties when you will no longer be
the President of Russia. What will be the stance of your
successor on the issue?
Vladimir Putin: It is
not about the name of the Russian president, it is about our
national interests. It is in the interests of the Russian
and other nations of the Russian Federation to nurture
relations with the Arab world. It has always appealed to Russia with
its enigma, culture, opportunities and potential. I have no doubt
that Russia is set to boost the pace of its interaction with
the Arab world in the years to come.
Salam Musafir: Thank
you.
Mohannad Khatib: I will
try to be brief. The Arab world is following the recent
developments, in both Russia and the Arab world, as part
of the so-called Arab spring. The situation is rapidly changing
in Sudan and Algeria; Tunisia just had an election. Do you see
any positive signals? Do you think the region is entering a new phase
that will culminate in a stable Middle East?
Vladimir Putin: Clearly,
the region is not in a state of stability. We all
understand it; we can see it with our own eyes. But all things pass.
I hope it will be over one day. It will not get better quickly on its
own, if you just leave things as they are, without attempts
to improve the situation. Russia will do all it can to make sure
things get back to normal and as soon as possible.
We do not think you can
and should handle the situation ‘from above’. As I said, we
have many friends in the Arab world. It is time to get Syria
back into the Arab family, to re-instate it in the Arab
League. We will work hard to bring it back to normal
and to help our friends. However, the pace of improvements
will ultimately depend on the people who are responsible
for the situation in their countries. I am convinced
stabilisation is inevitable and I wish it happens as soon
as possible.
Remark: Thank you so
much, Mr. President, for the productive interview.
