Vladimir Putin answered questions
from American film director, screenwriter and producer Oliver Stone.
The interview was recorded on June 19, 2019
in the Kremlin.
July 19, 2019
22:00
The Kremlin,
Moscow
Interview with film director Oliver
Stone.
Oliver
Stone: So,
I interviewed Mr Medvedchuk. It was in Monte Carlo. He gave us
a very interesting interview. He gave us his view
of the Ukraine. I gather that you’re close with him.
President
of Russia Vladimir Putin:
I would not say that we are very close but we know each other well. He was
President Kuchma’s Chief of Staff, and it was in this capacity
at the time that he asked me to take part
in the christening of his daughter. According to Russian
Orthodox tradition, you can't refuse such a request.
Oliver
Stone: Oh, you cannot
refuse it?
I thought it was a big
honour for you to be the godfather of his daughter.
Vladimir
Putin: It is always
a great honour to be a godfather.
Vladimir Putin: I will not
give a number but several people.
Oliver Stone: Wow. Is it like
a hundred or three hundred?
Vladimir Putin: No, no, are you
serious? Certainly not. Just a few.
Oliver
Stone: Otherwise
I would ask you to be the godfather for my daughter.
Vladimir Putin: Does she want
to become an Orthodox Christian?
Oliver
Stone: Ok, we’ll make her
that.
Vladimir Putin: You have
to ask her.
Oliver
Stone: As long
as she stands in church, right?
Vladimir Putin: Of course. How
old is she?
Oliver
Stone: She is 22 now.
Vladimir Putin: Is she
a believer?
Oliver
Stone: Yes, she is
a believer. She is raised Christian.
Vladimir Putin: I see.
Oliver Stone: You know, young
people in America sometimes, they are different.
Vladimir Putin: Young people are
different everywhere.
Oliver
Stone: They are spoiled
to some degree in the western world.
Vladimir Putin: It depends.
The older generation always says that about the younger generation.
Oliver
Stone: Yeah, I know,
I know. That’s true. But I don’t know what is going on with
the American culture. It’s very strange right now.
Vladimir Putin: Is there
an American culture?
Oliver
Stone: As you know,
I’ve been very rebel all my life. Still am. And I have
to tell you, I’m shocked by some of the behaviours
and the thinking of the new generation. It takes so much
for granted. And so much of the argument, so much
of the thinking, so much of the newspaper, television
commentaries about gender, people identify themselves, and social media,
this and that, I’m male, I’m female, I’m transgender, I’m cisgender. It
goes on forever, and there is a big fight about who is who. It
seems like we miss the bigger point.
Vladimir Putin: They live too well. They have nothing
to think about.
Oliver
Stone: Yeah, but it’s not
a healthy culture.
Vladimir Putin: Well, yes.
Oliver
Stone: Years ago when we
were talking about homosexuality, you said that in Russia we don’t
propagate it.
Vladimir Putin: Not exactly. We
have a law banning propaganda among minors.
Oliver
Stone: Yes, that’s
the one I’m talking about. It seems like maybe that’s a sensible law.
Vladimir Putin: It is aimed
at allowing people to reach maturity and then decide who they
are and how they want to live. There are no restrictions at all
after this.
Oliver
Stone: Ok. Mr Medvedchuk
proposed recently, you know, a plan for solving the tensions
in Ukraine between east and west. You know about this?
Vladimir Putin: To be honest,
we do not talk so often. He has more free time than I do. But we meet from
time to time, especially in connection with his efforts to get
detainees released. He devotes much time to this.
He also told me something about his
plans on Donbass but I do not know the details. At any
rate, I consider it absolutely correct that he calls for direct
dialogue with the people who live in Donbass. There is not
a single example in recent history when a crisis was settled
without direct contact between the sides to the conflict.
He says he thinks it is necessary
to fully implement the Minsk agreements and I cannot help
but agree with this as well. So, I know the elements of his
proposals. He speaks about them in public and I agree.
Oliver
Stone: Ok. They have
a new president now. Has anything changed in Ukraine? Or still
the same?
Vladimir Putin: Not yet. After all,
the recent election was clearly a protest vote. A fairly large
number of people supported the newly-elect President in central
Ukraine, in the east and the south. And these are all
people who sincerely seek a settlement in any event. During his election
campaign President Zelensky continuously spoke about his readiness to do
everything to solve this crisis. And then literally just yesterday,
while in Paris, I think, he said suddenly he does not believe it is
possible to hold talks with what he called separatists. This is clearly
at odds with what he said during his election campaign.
Oliver
Stone: So no change?
Vladimir Putin: Unfortunately, none
for the time being.
Oliver
Stone: Do you think
there’s any revulsion? I mean, you were telling me about Ukraine
and Russia. Do you think there is any reason for this hatred
of Russia in Ukraine?
Vladimir Putin: You know, our
relationship is not easy at the moment. This is the result
of the grievous events linked with the coup d’état.
The other part of this story is propaganda by the current
government in Ukraine, which blames Russia for all the tragic
events that ensued.
Oliver
Stone: Well, historically,
do you see these two countries coming together again?
Vladimir Putin: I think this
is inevitable. At any rate, the cultivation of normal, friendly
and, even more than friendly, allied relations is inevitable.
Oliver
Stone: Yeah. Mr Medvedchuk
would be a good liaison.
Vladimir Putin: I believe so.
But our positions, our points of view, differ on many things. Mr
Medvedchuk was born in the family of a man that was said
to be convicted during the Soviet times for nationalist
activities. He was born in Siberia, where his family and his father
virtually lived in exile.
Oliver
Stone: What’s
the connection?
Vladimir Putin: Connection
between what?
Oliver Stone: All this story
to my question?
Vladimir Putin: The connection is that he has his own ideas about Ukraine
and the Ukrainian people. For example, I believe that
Russians and Ukrainians are actually one people.
Oliver Stone: One people, two
nations?
Vladimir Putin: One nation,
in fact.
Oliver Stone: You think it is
one nation?
Vladimir Putin: Of course.
Look, when these lands that are now the core of Ukraine, joined
Russia, there were just three regions – Kiev, the Kiev region,
northern and southern regions – nobody thought themselves to be
anything but Russians, because it was all based on religious affiliation.
They were all Orthodox and they considered themselves Russians. They did
not want to be part of the Catholic world, where Poland was
dragging them.
I understand very well that over
the time the identity of this part of Russia crystallized,
and people have the right to determine their identity. But later
this factor was used to throw into imbalance the Russian Empire. But
in fact, this is the same world sharing the same history, same
religion, traditions, and a wide range of ties, close family
ties among them.
At the same time, if
a significant part of people who live in Ukraine today believe
that they should emphasise their identity and fight for it, no one
in Russia would be against this, including me. But, bearing in mind
that we have many things in common, we can use this as our
competitive advantage during some form of integration; it is obvious.
However, the current government clearly doesn’t want this. I believe
that in the end common sense will prevail, and we will finally
arrive at the conclusion I have mentioned: rapprochement is
inevitable.
Oliver Stone: I don’t think
Mr Medvedchuk would agree. He would say: two nations, similar people. That what
he would say, take a strong line on that.
Vladimir Putin: He doesn’t. That
is what I am saying.
Oliver Stone: That’s what I’m
saying. He does not agree.
Vladimir Putin: Yes,
of course. This is what I am saying: our positions on some
things, important ones, are different. But at the same time, he
speaks in favour of establishing good relations with Russia
in order to use these competitive advantages
in the economy. He shows how today the Ukrainian economy is
completely destroyed because it has lost the Russian market and, most
importantly, cooperation in industry. Nobody needs Ukrainian industrial
goods on Western markets, and that goes for agriculture too:
very few goods are purchased. Round timber is in demand, but soon there
will be no timber in Ukraine at all. It’s not like the vast
expanses of Siberia.
For example, Europe often takes
some steps towards Ukraine – or did so until recently – with,
say, permitting purchases of round timber. And this is just one
example. In fact, there are many more.
Oliver Stone: Well, someone told
me today that Mr Medvedchuk’s party, For Life Party, is up 12 percent
in the polls. So he is building a party that has
a following, it seems to me.
Vladimir Putin: If so, that is
good. To be honest, I don’t know. But if kit is true, that is good.
If so, we can only welcome this
because he and his partners in the party stand
for restoring relations with Russia. How could we not welcome that?
Of course, we welcome it. I have known him for a long time.
He keeps his word. If he says something, he does it.
Oliver Stone: So, he is
a very courageous man, I think. His villa was bombed, his offices
were bombed. He is under threat all the time. He is hanging in there,
staying in his country.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, this is
true because he has convictions. I mentioned that his father was
a Ukrainian nationalist and was convicted by a Soviet court
for this. Strange as it may seem but the founders, many founders
of Ukrainian nationalism advocated good relations with Russia. They said
good relations were necessary for the development of Ukraine
itself.
Oliver Stone: When was that?
Vladimir Putin: This was
in the 19th century. They came out for Ukraine’s
independence but said that Ukraine must preserve good, friendly relations with
Russia. Mr Medvedchuk adheres to similar ideas. This is why he has
convictions. I may not agree with his position on something but
I always respect it.
Oliver Stone: Yeah, two nations
he says. When I hear the words “Ukrainian nationalism,” I get
worried, because I think of Stepan Bandera and people who have
convictions too.
Vladimir Putin: Me, too.
Oliver Stone: Ukrainian
nationalism is dangerous too.
Vladimir Putin: In general
nationalism is a sign of narrow-mindedness but I do not want
to offend Mr Medvedchuk.
Oliver Stone: It’s words.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, but
in any event, he is in the category of people who advocate
independence, the consolidation of an independent Ukraine, but
at the same time believe that it is easier to achieve this
by pursuing cooperation with Russia. And I think he is largely
right.
Oliver Stone: You’re very clear.
You talked about the coup
d’état. Just want to revisit that because there has been a lot more
research done. It seems that research has revealed that there were shooters,
snipers at the Maidan. The forensics with the angle
of shooting, bodies of the police and the protestors.
It was all very badly investigated. Not at all really. But what evidence
we have seems to point to there being, they say, Georgian shooters,
people from Georgia. And I’ve heard that. Have you heard anything more
on the Russian front?
Vladimir Putin: No but
I know what you are talking about. I know that the authorities
headed by President Yanukovych at that time did not use the army
and were not interested in giving any excuse to the opposition
to use force. And, as Mr Yanukovych told me repeatedly, it did not
even occur to him to use force and the military against
civilians, even against those who had already taken up arms. I completely
rule out that he could have done this, but those who were looking
for a pretext to stage a coup could have well done it,
of course.
Oliver Stone: I remember
you were telling me about the Obama phone call, Obama and you had
an agreement that there would be no firing on the last day.
And he gave you a promise that he would…
Vladimir Putin: You know, while
Obama is no longer President, there are certain things we do not discuss
in public. At any rate, I can say that the US did not
follow through on the agreements that we reached during this phone
call. I will stop there without going into detail.
Oliver Stone: Yes. So recently,
you know Russia has been obviously accused and accused over and over
again of interference in the 2016 election. As far
as I know there is no proof, it has not turned up. But now
in the US there has been an investigation going on about
Ukraine’s interference in the election. It seems that it was
a very confusing situation, and Poroshenko seems to have been
very strongly pro-Clinton, anti-Trump.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, this is no
secret.
Oliver Stone: Do you think there
was interference?
Vladimir Putin: I do not
think that this could be interpreted as interference by Ukraine. But
it is perfectly obvious that Ukrainian oligarchs gave money to Trump’s
opponents. I do not know whether they did this by themselves
or with the knowledge of the authorities.
Oliver Stone: Where they giving
information to the Clinton campaign?
Vladimir Putin: I do not
know. I am being honest. I will not speak about what I do not
know. I have enough problems of my own. They assumed Mrs Clinton
would win and did everything to show loyalty to the future
US administration. That is nothing special. They wanted the future
President to have a good opinion of them. This is why they
allowed themselves to make unflattering statements about Trump
and supported the Democrats in every possible way. This is no
secret at all. They acted almost in public.
Oliver Stone: You do not want
to go any further on that because you do not have any information?
Vladimir Putin: You know, this
would be inappropriate on my part. If I said something more
specific, I would have to put some documents, some papers
on the table.
Oliver Stone: You understand
that it has huge implications because Mr Trump would be very grateful?
Vladimir Putin: I did not
interfere then, I do not want to interfere now, and I am
not going to interfere in the future.
Oliver Stone: But that is
a noble motive. Unfortunately, the world has degenerated
in these two years, with all this backbiting and accusations, dirty
fighting. Anyway…
Vladimir Putin: There are no rules
at all. It is no holds barred.
Oliver Stone: Well, you have
rules. You say no interference.
Vladimir Putin: I have
principles.
Oliver Stone: Ok. But you seem
to have rules based on those principles.
Vladimir Putin: Well, yes.
Oliver Stone: Ok. Well, you are
fighting with one hand tied behind your back.
Vladimir Putin: Why? You mean,
because of these principles?
Oliver Stone: Yes. If you knew
something about the election, it would tilt the balance
in a very weird way.
Vladimir Putin: I think
this is simply unrealistic. I have said so many times.
Oliver Stone: What is
unrealistic?
Vladimir Putin: To change
anything. If you want to return to US elections again – look, it
is a huge country, a huge nation with its own problems, with its own
views on what is good and what is bad, and with
an understanding that in the past few years, say ten years,
nothing has changed for the better for the middle class
despite the enormous growth of prosperity for the ruling
class and the wealthy. This is a fact that Trump’s election team
understood. He understood this himself and made the most of it.
No matter what our bloggers –
or whoever’s job it is to comment on the internet –
might say about the situation in the US, this could not have
played a decisive role. It is sheer nonsense. But our sympathies were with
him because he said he wanted to restore normal relations with Russia.
What is bad about that? Of course, we can only welcome this position.
Oliver Stone: Apparently, it
excited the Clinton people a lot. The Clinton campaign
accumulated the “Steele dossier.” They paid for it. It came from
strange sources, the whole “Steele dossier” issue. Some of it comes
from Ukraine. They also went out of their way, it seems to me, with
the CIA, with Mr Brennan, John Brennan, and with Clapper, James
Clapper, and Comey of the FBI. They all seem to have gotten
involved, all intelligence agencies, in an anti-Trump way.
Vladimir Putin: They had levers
inside the government, but there is nothing like that here. They applied
administrative pressure. It always gives an advantage in countries
such as the USA, some countries of Western Europe, about 2
percent on average, at a minimum.
Oliver Stone: Two percent? What
are you talking about?
Vladimir Putin: Yes. According
to experts, those with administrative pressure they can apply always have
a 2 percent edge. You can look at it differently. Some experts
believe that in different countries, it can vary, but in countries
such as the United States, some European countries, the advantage
is 2 percent. This is what experts say, they can be wrong.
Oliver Stone: I do not
know. I heard of the one percent, but it seems to get more
like 12 percent.
Vladimir Putin: That is
possible, depending on how it is used.
Oliver Stone: Well, you are not
disagreeing. You are saying that it was quite possible that there was
an attempt to prevent Donald Trump from coming into office with
a soft, I will call it a soft coup d’état?
Vladimir Putin: In the USA?
Oliver Stone: Yes.
Vladimir Putin: It is still
going on.
Oliver Stone: A coup d’état
is planned by people who have power inside.
Vladimir Putin: No, I do
not mean that. I mean lack of respect for the will
of the voters. I think it was unprecedented
in the history of the United States.
Oliver Stone: What was
unprecedented?
Vladimir Putin: It was
the first time the losing side does not want to admit defeat
and does not respect the will of the voters.
Oliver Stone: I would
disagree. I would say it happened in 2000, that the Republicans
lost the popular vote, they lost Florida, and they did not accept
that, and they had a coup d’état in their way, a soft coup
d’état also. And they put Bush in.
Vladimir Putin: But this was
a court decision, as far as I remember.
Oliver Stone: Yeah,
in a way, but the court decision was blocked. There was
a vote going on. And if you remember the Brooks brothers’ riot,
all those Republicans rushed to electoral offices in Miami,
and they prevented the vote from going through in a county,
in one of those major counties. It was a key factor. It was not
like the Russian revolution. It was a minor event, but it was big. It
shifted the momentum, totally. I remember that night. Then they
referred it to the Supreme Court. Also, and the same thing
in January 2017, when the intelligence assessment was released, what
was it, January 7th,, a few days before Trump was
to be inaugurated, the intelligence assessment actually said that
the intelligence agencies suspected Trump would have been colluding with
Russia. That is even bigger. That is an attempt at a coup
d’état, because the electors in America still had the right
to overturn the election vote.
Vladimir Putin: This is what
they call unscrupulous application of administrative pressure.
Oliver Stone: Ok, ok, ok. Well,
listen, it seems to be going on a lot more than we know. Talking
about America and Russia, I have not seen you since the Kerch
Strait. Any comments on that?
Vladimir Putin: No, I do
not, as we have repeatedly said. The former President, Mr Poroshenko,
staged this provocation intentionally during the election campaign. He was
aware that people in the country’s east and south would not vote
for him, and he used this provocation to escalate
the situation and then declare a state of emergency there.
I have reason to believe that he was going to declare
a state of emergency in the entire country,
and possibly to postpone the election as a result.
Generally speaking, he was trying to hold on to power
at all costs, and he was seeking any means to execute this plan.
This was the regime’s death throes.
As far as I remember,
recently the newly appointed Chief of the Ukrainian army’s
General Staff has made a statement that offers roughly the same
interpretation of events but perhaps using milder language.
Oliver Stone: Who gave that
interpretation?
Vladimir Putin: Chief
of the General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Oliver Stone: Ok, but beyond
Poroshenko, the United States has a shadow here. The United
States knows what he is doing, and supported it.
Vladimir Putin: Absolutely.
Oliver Stone: It is
the creation of a strategy of tension that worries me
enormously. I have seen this happen in so many places now.
I think I read on Monday, the Russian bombers,
the Russian SU-57 escorted, what was it, the B-52 bomber,
a nuclear bomber, US bomber, close to the Russian borders.
Vladimir Putin: The Su-57
aircraft are just entering service. This is a fifth-generation jet
fighter. It was the Su-27 that was mentioned.
Oliver Stone: Do you think that is
normal?
Vladimir Putin: Actually, it is
sad, probably, but this is common practice. US aircraft did not enter our
airspace, and our aircraft did not conduct any high-risk maneuvers.
But generally speaking, this is not
great. Just look where the Baltic or Black seas are located,
and where the USA is. It was not us who approached US borders, but US
aircraft that approached ours. Such practices had better stop.
Oliver Stone: In this
continuing strategy of tension, there was a report
in The New York Times last week that the Obama Administration,
before they left office, put in what they call a cyber warfare
device. It was inserted in Russian infrastructure in January 2017.
Vladimir Putin: This is being
discussed almost openly. It was said Russia would be punished
for interfering in the election campaign. We do not see anything
extraordinary or unexpected here. This should be followed closely. That is
the first thing.
The second is I believe
that we only need to negotiate how we are to live in this
high-tech world and develop uniform rules and means of monitoring
each other’s actions. We have repeatedly proposed holding talks on this
subject to come to some binding agreement.
Oliver Stone: Continuing that
theme of strategy of tension, how is Russia affected
by the US-Iranian confrontation?
Vladimir Putin: This worries us
because this is happening near our borders. This may destabilize
the situation around Iran, affect some countries with which we have very
close relations, causing additional refugee flows on a large scale
plus substantially damage the world economy as well
as the global energy sector. All this is extremely disturbing.
Therefore we would welcome any improvement when it comes to relations
between the US and Iran. A simple escalation of tension
will not be advantageous for anyone. It seems to me that this is also
the case with the US. One might think that there are only benefits
here, but there will be setbacks as well. The positive
and negative factors have to be calculated.
Oliver Stone: Yeah. Scary.
Vladimir Putin: No, this is not
scary.
Oliver Stone: You sound very
depressed, much more depressed than last time.
Vladimir Putin: Last time
the situation concerning Iran was not like this. Last time nobody said
anything about getting into our energy and other networks. Last time
the developments were more positive.
Oliver Stone: The situation
is worse now?
Vladimir Putin: Take North
Korea, they have also rolled back a bit. Trade wars are unfolding.
Oliver Stone: Venezuela.
Vladimir Putin: Venezuela
as well. In other words, regrettably, the situation has not
improved, so there is nothing special to be happy about.
On the other hand, we feel confident. We have no problems.
Oliver Stone: Well, you are
an optimist, and always have been?
Vladimir Putin: Exactly.
Oliver Stone: You are
a peacemaker.
Vladimir Putin: Absolutely spot
on.
Oliver Stone: So obviously, you
have to get together with the Americans, and the Chinese,
and the Iranians. I know.
Vladimir Putin: Just do not put
the blame on us. Lately no matter what is happening, we always get
the blame.
Oliver Stone: Well,
the irony is that Mr Trump came to office promising that he was not
going to interfere in other countries. He made this overall strategy,
he was against the wars that we have started, and ever since he has
been in office, it has got worse. Why, one wonders? Is he in charge,
or are other people pushing these agendas?
Vladimir Putin: I think he
is against this now, too. But life is complicated and diverse.
To make the right decision it is necessary to fight
for what you believe in.
Oliver Stone: Yeah, conviction.
It is your fourth term, are you
getting tired?
Vladimir Putin: No, if
I had been tired, I would not have run for the fourth term.
Oliver Stone: Ok. Listen, can
I find out something? Let’s take a pause. I just want
to ask my director if he wants to ask any more things about
Ukraine. Five minutes?
Vladimir Putin: The director always has the final word; after all, he is
the one calling the shots.
Oliver Stone: Thank you.
I think we are fine.
Vladimir Putin: Very well. Are
we done?
Thank you so much.
Oliver Stone: Thank you, sir.
Vladimir Putin: Are you going
back to the States?
Oliver Stone: I am very
worried about you.
Vladimir Putin: Why?
Oliver Stone:I can see there are
so many problems. It weighs you down. It is sad to see. It is a tough
situation.
Vladimir Putin:It is all right.
We have seen worse.
Oliver Stone: Russian bombes
in Syria. What has happened to Skripal? Where is he?
Vladimir Putin: I have no
idea. He is a spy, after all. He is always in hiding.
Oliver Stone: They say he was
going to come back to Russia. He had some information.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, I have
been told that he wants to make a written request to come back.
Oliver Stone: He knew still
and he wanted to come back. He had information that he could give to the world
press here in Russia.
Vladimir Putin: I doubt it.
He has broken the ranks already. What kind of information can he
possess?
Oliver Stone: Who poisoned him?
They say English secret services did not want Sergei Skripal to come back
to Russia?
Vladimir Putin: To be
honest, I do not quite believe this. I do not believe this is
the case.
Oliver Stone: Makes sense. You
do not agree with me?
Vladimir Putin: If they had
wanted to poison him, they would have done so.
Oliver Stone: Ok, that makes
sense. I don’t know. Who did then?
Vladimir Putin: After all, this
is not a hard thing to do in today’s world. In fact,
a fraction of a milligram would have been enough to do
the job. And if they had him in their hands, there was nothing
complicated about it. No, this does not make sense. Maybe they just wanted
to provoke a scandal.
Oliver Stone: I think it is
more complicated. You know, you think I am much too much
of a conspiracy guy.
Vladimir Putin: I do not
believe this.
Oliver Stone: I have seen
things. I do.
Vladimir Putin: You should not.
Take care of yourself.
Oliver Stone: Can we get
a picture?
Remark: This is a great
honour for us. Can we take a picture with you?
Vladimir Putin: With pleasure.
<…>
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